1
00:00:00,050 --> 00:00:16,790
[Music]

2
00:00:20,630 --> 00:00:18,550
welcome back fade to black i am your

3
00:00:23,990 --> 00:00:20,640
host jimmy church

4
00:00:25,429 --> 00:00:24,000
tonight michael schratt is here

5
00:00:27,830 --> 00:00:25,439
got a lot of stuff we're going to be

6
00:00:29,349 --> 00:00:27,840
going over tonight and i think i have it

7
00:00:31,990 --> 00:00:29,359
in order

8
00:00:33,830 --> 00:00:32,000
of course uh the one

9
00:00:36,630 --> 00:00:33,840
in one case that we wanted to start off

10
00:00:38,090 --> 00:00:36,640
with tonight seems to have vanished

11
00:00:40,630 --> 00:00:38,100
just had it in my hand

12
00:00:42,150 --> 00:00:40,640
[Music]

13
00:00:44,470 --> 00:00:42,160
all right let's get this show cracking

14
00:00:46,709 --> 00:00:44,480
tomorrow night

15
00:00:47,910 --> 00:00:46,719
barry littleton

16
00:00:54,470 --> 00:00:47,920
great

17
00:00:57,029 --> 00:00:54,480
abduction and uh contact case that he

18
00:00:58,869 --> 00:00:57,039
has been going through his entire life

19
00:01:01,110 --> 00:00:58,879
and uh so we'll be talking about that

20
00:01:03,510 --> 00:01:01,120
tomorrow in his recent contact and

21
00:01:04,310 --> 00:01:03,520
conversation so that will be tomorrow

22
00:01:10,789 --> 00:01:04,320
night

23
00:01:14,070 --> 00:01:10,799
it's michael shrap

24
00:01:16,550 --> 00:01:14,080
and i did post uh up on twitter over the

25
00:01:19,270 --> 00:01:16,560
weekend michael and i got together

26
00:01:22,550 --> 00:01:19,280
uh for a nice little clandestine meeting

27
00:01:24,789 --> 00:01:22,560
at a location here in burbank and went

28
00:01:28,630 --> 00:01:24,799
over all of the material in advance for

29
00:01:31,590 --> 00:01:28,640
tonight's show and he is a private pilot

30
00:01:33,510 --> 00:01:31,600
he's a military aerospace historian he

31
00:01:35,990 --> 00:01:33,520
has lectured across the country on the

32
00:01:37,830 --> 00:01:36,000
unique subject of mystery aircraft and

33
00:01:40,069 --> 00:01:37,840
classified propulsion systems buried

34
00:01:42,149 --> 00:01:40,079
deep within the military industrial

35
00:01:45,910 --> 00:01:42,159
complex he was a guest speaker at the

36
00:01:48,630 --> 00:01:45,920
oshkosh air venture in 2006 and 2007

37
00:01:50,389 --> 00:01:48,640
world's largest air show and he has

38
00:01:52,149 --> 00:01:50,399
developed a number of contacts which

39
00:01:54,230 --> 00:01:52,159
have had first-hand experience in

40
00:01:55,350 --> 00:01:54,240
dealing with classified black programs

41
00:01:57,510 --> 00:01:55,360
including

42
00:01:59,990 --> 00:01:57,520
former united states air force pilots

43
00:02:02,469 --> 00:02:00,000
retired naval personnel aerospace

44
00:02:05,109 --> 00:02:02,479
engineers and has been

45
00:02:07,109 --> 00:02:05,119
that have maintained a top secret sci

46
00:02:09,510 --> 00:02:07,119
security clearance in an effort to

47
00:02:11,510 --> 00:02:09,520
expose government fraud waste and abuse

48
00:02:13,270 --> 00:02:11,520
michael devotes much of his free time

49
00:02:15,430 --> 00:02:13,280
researching aerospace technical

50
00:02:17,350 --> 00:02:15,440
documents conducting interviews and

51
00:02:20,470 --> 00:02:17,360
traveling to multiple university

52
00:02:22,949 --> 00:02:20,480
archives as a concerned citizen it's his

53
00:02:25,910 --> 00:02:22,959
belief that it is our constitutional

54
00:02:28,309 --> 00:02:25,920
obligation to question authority and

55
00:02:30,869 --> 00:02:28,319
demand an accounting of unacknowledged

56
00:02:33,430 --> 00:02:30,879
special access programs that bypass

57
00:02:34,550 --> 00:02:33,440
congressional oversight and public

58
00:02:36,710 --> 00:02:34,560
scrutiny

59
00:02:38,229 --> 00:02:36,720
you can follow him on facebook michael

60
00:02:40,949 --> 00:02:38,239
schratt it's right there we have the

61
00:02:42,229 --> 00:02:40,959
links up at jimmychurchradio.com

62
00:02:43,910 --> 00:02:42,239
i'd like to welcome back to fade to

63
00:02:46,229 --> 00:02:43,920
black michael stratton michael good

64
00:02:48,550 --> 00:02:46,239
evening how are you jimmy great to be

65
00:02:49,589 --> 00:02:48,560
with you it's great to hear your voice

66
00:02:51,030 --> 00:02:49,599
again

67
00:02:53,589 --> 00:02:51,040
and you know what's funny we're going to

68
00:02:54,550 --> 00:02:53,599
be going over uh all of this material

69
00:02:56,710 --> 00:02:54,560
tonight

70
00:02:57,750 --> 00:02:56,720
and uh we were talking about have blue

71
00:03:00,229 --> 00:02:57,760
earlier

72
00:03:01,589 --> 00:03:00,239
right and i've i've got everything

73
00:03:03,270 --> 00:03:01,599
organized i've

74
00:03:06,149 --> 00:03:03,280
they have blue image

75
00:03:08,309 --> 00:03:06,159
i've misplaced it and i can't i've gone

76
00:03:10,630 --> 00:03:08,319
through i had it while i was sitting

77
00:03:14,949 --> 00:03:12,229
on the floor

78
00:03:17,110 --> 00:03:14,959
what did i do i don't know okay

79
00:03:20,229 --> 00:03:17,120
okay jimmy we can roll with it yeah i

80
00:03:23,110 --> 00:03:20,239
know right and uh but before we get to

81
00:03:25,110 --> 00:03:23,120
that uh and i have a project blue book

82
00:03:27,830 --> 00:03:25,120
file here thank you for that

83
00:03:30,229 --> 00:03:27,840
that i've uh now read through

84
00:03:32,470 --> 00:03:30,239
uh a few times this is some of the most

85
00:03:34,789 --> 00:03:32,480
fascinating reading and i know that

86
00:03:37,990 --> 00:03:34,799
i'm holding something historical you

87
00:03:40,070 --> 00:03:38,000
know in my hands and when you read when

88
00:03:41,190 --> 00:03:40,080
you read through stuff like this i just

89
00:03:43,350 --> 00:03:41,200
makes me

90
00:03:44,229 --> 00:03:43,360
more appreciative of the work that you

91
00:03:47,750 --> 00:03:44,239
do

92
00:03:50,630 --> 00:03:47,760
and uh and thank you uh for getting me

93
00:03:53,430 --> 00:03:50,640
this copy of this blue book file but

94
00:03:55,670 --> 00:03:53,440
this is what i wanted to ask you first

95
00:03:57,670 --> 00:03:55,680
the tv show

96
00:03:58,470 --> 00:03:57,680
uh project blue book

97
00:03:59,509 --> 00:03:58,480
where

98
00:04:00,949 --> 00:03:59,519
you

99
00:04:03,030 --> 00:04:00,959
have had

100
00:04:04,550 --> 00:04:03,040
well i hate to say it but special access

101
00:04:07,030 --> 00:04:04,560
right

102
00:04:09,030 --> 00:04:07,040
you had your own special access program

103
00:04:10,070 --> 00:04:09,040
into the blue book files

104
00:04:18,629 --> 00:04:10,080
and

105
00:04:21,030 --> 00:04:18,639
then this show comes out it's

106
00:04:24,390 --> 00:04:21,040
entertaining i get that on on history

107
00:04:25,670 --> 00:04:24,400
channel when you see that versus what

108
00:04:28,390 --> 00:04:25,680
you know

109
00:04:30,950 --> 00:04:28,400
uh about your research into heinek and

110
00:04:31,909 --> 00:04:30,960
and what blue book was all about

111
00:04:34,310 --> 00:04:31,919
how

112
00:04:36,310 --> 00:04:34,320
uh what went through your mind uh when

113
00:04:37,990 --> 00:04:36,320
watching the series

114
00:04:39,590 --> 00:04:38,000
good question jimmy again good to be

115
00:04:42,469 --> 00:04:39,600
with you tonight uh one thing i want to

116
00:04:45,430 --> 00:04:42,479
clarify is i didn't technically have any

117
00:04:47,590 --> 00:04:45,440
impact on the tv show but as you

118
00:04:49,990 --> 00:04:47,600
mentioned yes i i did

119
00:04:53,350 --> 00:04:50,000
look into the blue book files that were

120
00:04:56,230 --> 00:04:53,360
a part of qfos center for ufo studies

121
00:04:58,550 --> 00:04:56,240
that was 2457 west peterson avenue and

122
00:05:00,950 --> 00:04:58,560
that's where i went through

123
00:05:02,870 --> 00:05:00,960
it had to have been about 30 000 cases

124
00:05:04,390 --> 00:05:02,880
and within those were a number of blue

125
00:05:06,629 --> 00:05:04,400
book files

126
00:05:08,469 --> 00:05:06,639
and like i said

127
00:05:10,469 --> 00:05:08,479
what was what were your thoughts when

128
00:05:12,950 --> 00:05:10,479
watching the tv show okay uh well

129
00:05:15,430 --> 00:05:12,960
obviously they fictionalized a lot of

130
00:05:18,790 --> 00:05:15,440
this and i think they missed some very

131
00:05:19,670 --> 00:05:18,800
good cases um i would say

132
00:05:23,350 --> 00:05:19,680
um

133
00:05:26,710 --> 00:05:23,360
25 of that series was gripping the other

134
00:05:28,150 --> 00:05:26,720
75 percent i felt they lost their way

135
00:05:29,350 --> 00:05:28,160
and

136
00:05:30,870 --> 00:05:29,360
maybe they could have done a good job

137
00:05:33,350 --> 00:05:30,880
but it's a first pass they're going to

138
00:05:35,830 --> 00:05:33,360
do another season you know not bad all

139
00:05:37,670 --> 00:05:35,840
in all for a first pass although a lot

140
00:05:39,749 --> 00:05:37,680
of these kind of veered off the

141
00:05:41,029 --> 00:05:39,759
historical track i wish they were going

142
00:05:42,070 --> 00:05:41,039
to cover the one that we're going to

143
00:05:44,469 --> 00:05:42,080
cover tonight because that would have

144
00:05:45,990 --> 00:05:44,479
been great yes yes this is an amazing

145
00:05:47,029 --> 00:05:46,000
case that we're going to cover uh

146
00:05:50,230 --> 00:05:47,039
everything that we're going to talk

147
00:05:52,950 --> 00:05:50,240
about tonight is is unbelievably cool

148
00:05:55,350 --> 00:05:52,960
but what uh

149
00:05:58,150 --> 00:05:55,360
where i thought

150
00:06:00,870 --> 00:05:58,160
uh you know freedom in writing

151
00:06:02,310 --> 00:06:00,880
and creativity okay we should always

152
00:06:06,469 --> 00:06:02,320
encourage that

153
00:06:09,590 --> 00:06:06,479
but when we are told from the beginning

154
00:06:11,670 --> 00:06:09,600
of each episode that this is based on

155
00:06:13,510 --> 00:06:11,680
actual events and you know this is a

156
00:06:15,430 --> 00:06:13,520
united states government project the

157
00:06:16,230 --> 00:06:15,440
united states air force and project blue

158
00:06:18,710 --> 00:06:16,240
book

159
00:06:21,590 --> 00:06:18,720
that all of this is part of the the

160
00:06:22,469 --> 00:06:21,600
record and this is this is how it went

161
00:06:23,749 --> 00:06:22,479
down

162
00:06:25,189 --> 00:06:23,759
and then

163
00:06:28,070 --> 00:06:25,199
the

164
00:06:30,390 --> 00:06:28,080
creativity takes things into

165
00:06:32,629 --> 00:06:30,400
uh you know heineken abductions and

166
00:06:35,430 --> 00:06:32,639
running into tanks with

167
00:06:38,150 --> 00:06:35,440
you know liquid tanks with et

168
00:06:41,430 --> 00:06:38,160
bodies in them

169
00:06:43,510 --> 00:06:41,440
putting him on a plane that crashed you

170
00:06:46,309 --> 00:06:43,520
know things like that which which none

171
00:06:49,749 --> 00:06:46,319
of that none of that happened but it's

172
00:06:52,150 --> 00:06:49,759
telling the public that it did and those

173
00:06:55,510 --> 00:06:52,160
that don't know the actual facts of all

174
00:06:58,790 --> 00:06:55,520
of these cases and the timelines of them

175
00:07:03,110 --> 00:06:58,800
you know bringing in men in black uh all

176
00:07:05,749 --> 00:07:03,120
the way back in the 19 late 1940s 1950

177
00:07:08,230 --> 00:07:05,759
is is is just wrong did

178
00:07:10,390 --> 00:07:08,240
did any of that happen i did heinek ever

179
00:07:13,270 --> 00:07:10,400
have contact with aliens

180
00:07:16,070 --> 00:07:13,280
did he ever uh men in black

181
00:07:17,830 --> 00:07:16,080
russian agents living next door and

182
00:07:20,710 --> 00:07:17,840
sleeping with his wife you know things

183
00:07:22,629 --> 00:07:20,720
like that that's crazy crazy things i

184
00:07:24,469 --> 00:07:22,639
didn't see any evidence of that going

185
00:07:26,870 --> 00:07:24,479
through the qfos files and there were a

186
00:07:27,909 --> 00:07:26,880
number of files sent directly to jl and

187
00:07:30,070 --> 00:07:27,919
heinek

188
00:07:31,909 --> 00:07:30,080
before he passed away and after he

189
00:07:34,870 --> 00:07:31,919
passed away so that was you know kind of

190
00:07:38,309 --> 00:07:34,880
a post and pre application of letters

191
00:07:40,950 --> 00:07:38,319
that were sent to the qfos headquarters

192
00:07:44,710 --> 00:07:40,960
and uh is is it okay

193
00:07:47,430 --> 00:07:44,720
for history channel to

194
00:07:51,589 --> 00:07:47,440
have this kind of uh

195
00:07:53,350 --> 00:07:51,599
fictional freedom with a man's uh past

196
00:07:55,830 --> 00:07:53,360
and his life

197
00:07:57,670 --> 00:07:55,840
i've debated it uh jimmy i just don't

198
00:08:00,309 --> 00:07:57,680
know if they should sensationalize the

199
00:08:01,670 --> 00:08:00,319
cases part of me says that you know they

200
00:08:04,950 --> 00:08:01,680
should stick to the historical

201
00:08:07,110 --> 00:08:04,960
background and then probably for ratings

202
00:08:09,510 --> 00:08:07,120
they wanted to divert a little bit to

203
00:08:11,589 --> 00:08:09,520
maybe sensationalize it and get more

204
00:08:12,950 --> 00:08:11,599
interest in the series maybe that's what

205
00:08:14,550 --> 00:08:12,960
they did and they felt that they could

206
00:08:17,830 --> 00:08:14,560
reach a balance looks like that's what

207
00:08:19,589 --> 00:08:17,840
they did well you know uh the cases if

208
00:08:21,670 --> 00:08:19,599
they just stayed

209
00:08:22,550 --> 00:08:21,680
uh you know on point

210
00:08:24,790 --> 00:08:22,560
right

211
00:08:27,430 --> 00:08:24,800
the cases stand on their own they

212
00:08:30,390 --> 00:08:27,440
probably can yes they probably can and

213
00:08:32,469 --> 00:08:30,400
and and and i agree with you too as well

214
00:08:35,029 --> 00:08:32,479
the the stuff that they did were the

215
00:08:36,469 --> 00:08:35,039
more popular ones but they weren't the

216
00:08:38,070 --> 00:08:36,479
best ones

217
00:08:41,029 --> 00:08:38,080
right and

218
00:08:45,110 --> 00:08:41,039
so i i mean what what can you really

219
00:08:48,389 --> 00:08:45,120
make out of a you know 45 minute slot in

220
00:08:50,230 --> 00:08:48,399
prime time out of just a ce1 case where

221
00:08:53,110 --> 00:08:50,240
someone just sees a light i mean how do

222
00:08:56,070 --> 00:08:53,120
you build a one-hour tv program out of a

223
00:08:58,389 --> 00:08:56,080
a ce1 light sighting you can't do it

224
00:09:01,269 --> 00:08:58,399
you've got to add something to it well

225
00:09:02,150 --> 00:09:01,279
that and the the flatwoods monster case

226
00:09:03,430 --> 00:09:02,160
which

227
00:09:07,110 --> 00:09:03,440
again

228
00:09:10,310 --> 00:09:07,120
if we just go based on all of the

229
00:09:12,230 --> 00:09:10,320
the actual eyewitnesses that were there

230
00:09:13,910 --> 00:09:12,240
and just go off of

231
00:09:15,590 --> 00:09:13,920
their side of things because they were

232
00:09:18,790 --> 00:09:15,600
the ones that were there

233
00:09:21,910 --> 00:09:18,800
um and not turn it into an owl standing

234
00:09:23,910 --> 00:09:21,920
on the top of a tree yeah i mean i spoke

235
00:09:26,310 --> 00:09:23,920
to frank fischino about that and i don't

236
00:09:29,430 --> 00:09:26,320
think he was very happy because they i

237
00:09:31,190 --> 00:09:29,440
don't even know if they really pursued

238
00:09:33,990 --> 00:09:31,200
his line of research there has there is

239
00:09:36,389 --> 00:09:34,000
no one on this planet point blank that

240
00:09:38,389 --> 00:09:36,399
has done more research on a flatwoods

241
00:09:40,230 --> 00:09:38,399
monster case than frankfushino that's

242
00:09:42,630 --> 00:09:40,240
right no one has done the amount of

243
00:09:44,070 --> 00:09:42,640
research that he has done and i worked

244
00:09:46,230 --> 00:09:44,080
with him for quite a while we put

245
00:09:48,949 --> 00:09:46,240
together a really nice solidworks model

246
00:09:50,630 --> 00:09:48,959
i did a 3d print out of this thing um

247
00:09:53,030 --> 00:09:50,640
they could have used something like that

248
00:09:54,630 --> 00:09:53,040
and got very close to what that thing

249
00:09:57,110 --> 00:09:54,640
actually looked like but in the tv

250
00:09:57,910 --> 00:09:57,120
series completely different yeah it was

251
00:09:59,590 --> 00:09:57,920
uh

252
00:10:02,870 --> 00:09:59,600
that was one of the

253
00:10:05,829 --> 00:10:02,880
episodes i was most looking forward to

254
00:10:06,550 --> 00:10:05,839
right and it was strange how they chose

255
00:10:09,030 --> 00:10:06,560
to

256
00:10:11,829 --> 00:10:09,040
uh debunk the case

257
00:10:12,949 --> 00:10:11,839
instead of going in the other direction

258
00:10:14,630 --> 00:10:12,959
and

259
00:10:17,190 --> 00:10:14,640
uh which they could have done with other

260
00:10:20,069 --> 00:10:17,200
cases but they didn't and like what they

261
00:10:23,430 --> 00:10:20,079
did with the lubbock lights as well uh

262
00:10:25,829 --> 00:10:23,440
completely destroyed uh what was uh and

263
00:10:28,150 --> 00:10:25,839
still is just an absolute fascinating

264
00:10:30,790 --> 00:10:28,160
case and they they killed it they killed

265
00:10:33,430 --> 00:10:30,800
it off and they went uh the debunking

266
00:10:35,590 --> 00:10:33,440
route instead of sticking with the facts

267
00:10:36,470 --> 00:10:35,600
in the case oh i found the have blue

268
00:10:37,509 --> 00:10:36,480
okay

269
00:10:40,550 --> 00:10:37,519
all right

270
00:10:42,630 --> 00:10:40,560
i found to have blue i can now relax

271
00:10:45,190 --> 00:10:42,640
let's let's we've got a lot to discuss

272
00:10:47,750 --> 00:10:45,200
tonight okay and uh we're gonna start

273
00:10:50,470 --> 00:10:47,760
off with have blue

274
00:10:51,350 --> 00:10:50,480
and briefly tell us what have blue

275
00:10:53,350 --> 00:10:51,360
was

276
00:10:56,150 --> 00:10:53,360
yeah okay good jimmy let's go ahead and

277
00:10:58,310 --> 00:10:56,160
start here i want to start by setting

278
00:11:00,310 --> 00:10:58,320
the stage i think we should set a

279
00:11:02,310 --> 00:11:00,320
historical precedent of what we're

280
00:11:03,750 --> 00:11:02,320
talking about here so that we can build

281
00:11:07,190 --> 00:11:03,760
on a foundation

282
00:11:09,750 --> 00:11:07,200
and this really begins in 1973 jimmy

283
00:11:12,949 --> 00:11:09,760
during the yom kippur air war

284
00:11:15,910 --> 00:11:12,959
of october 14 1973 when a number of

285
00:11:18,550 --> 00:11:15,920
israeli pilots flying american fighters

286
00:11:20,310 --> 00:11:18,560
were shot down so that's the one that's

287
00:11:22,710 --> 00:11:20,320
the first thing to remember

288
00:11:26,310 --> 00:11:22,720
is the yom kippur air war october 14th

289
00:11:29,430 --> 00:11:26,320
1973. now concurrent with that jimmy

290
00:11:33,910 --> 00:11:29,440
something else was going on um

291
00:11:35,990 --> 00:11:33,920
soviet tall king radars and sa2 and sa-4

292
00:11:38,150 --> 00:11:36,000
sites were coming online so when you put

293
00:11:39,990 --> 00:11:38,160
these in conjunction to each other these

294
00:11:42,790 --> 00:11:40,000
two separate items

295
00:11:46,389 --> 00:11:42,800
coming together as a united coalition it

296
00:11:48,630 --> 00:11:46,399
was at that time that the u.s air force

297
00:11:51,110 --> 00:11:48,640
pretty much saw the writing on the wall

298
00:11:53,590 --> 00:11:51,120
that we could no longer penetrate

299
00:11:54,949 --> 00:11:53,600
russian airspace safely we had to do

300
00:11:57,269 --> 00:11:54,959
something about it

301
00:12:00,470 --> 00:11:57,279
and that's what spurred this whole

302
00:12:03,190 --> 00:12:00,480
stealth program so it was in 1974 that

303
00:12:05,350 --> 00:12:03,200
the us air force approached darpa and

304
00:12:07,509 --> 00:12:05,360
they wanted to examine the feasibility

305
00:12:10,389 --> 00:12:07,519
of developing a low

306
00:12:12,069 --> 00:12:10,399
radar cross-section manned aircraft

307
00:12:15,030 --> 00:12:12,079
that could sneak in under the radar

308
00:12:17,350 --> 00:12:15,040
screen hit a target and come out

309
00:12:19,990 --> 00:12:17,360
completely unscathed unannounced and so

310
00:12:22,069 --> 00:12:20,000
that's the historical background of

311
00:12:23,269 --> 00:12:22,079
where we're starting here now keep going

312
00:12:25,030 --> 00:12:23,279
forward

313
00:12:26,790 --> 00:12:25,040
what they ended up doing is putting on a

314
00:12:28,870 --> 00:12:26,800
request for proposal

315
00:12:31,750 --> 00:12:28,880
there were at least six to seven

316
00:12:33,509 --> 00:12:31,760
contractors that answered the call from

317
00:12:36,069 --> 00:12:33,519
darpa that includes boeing general

318
00:12:38,230 --> 00:12:36,079
dynamics mcdonnell douglas grumman

319
00:12:40,069 --> 00:12:38,240
northrop fairchild and republic and

320
00:12:41,910 --> 00:12:40,079
interestingly jimmy

321
00:12:43,829 --> 00:12:41,920
lockheed did not

322
00:12:46,310 --> 00:12:43,839
they weren't included on this original

323
00:12:48,870 --> 00:12:46,320
group because they hadn't built a

324
00:12:50,710 --> 00:12:48,880
fighter since the f-104 so they weren't

325
00:12:52,470 --> 00:12:50,720
even included on the stealth program i

326
00:12:54,870 --> 00:12:52,480
always thought that was interesting

327
00:12:56,550 --> 00:12:54,880
and they actually pulled kelly johnson

328
00:12:59,430 --> 00:12:56,560
out of retirement

329
00:13:01,829 --> 00:12:59,440
and he worked with ben rich to develop

330
00:13:03,829 --> 00:13:01,839
have blue and that was the working

331
00:13:07,430 --> 00:13:03,839
prototype that led to the development of

332
00:13:08,230 --> 00:13:07,440
the f-117a stealth fighter uh continuing

333
00:13:10,710 --> 00:13:08,240
on

334
00:13:13,190 --> 00:13:10,720
denny's overholzer was the engineer at

335
00:13:16,230 --> 00:13:13,200
lockheed skunk works he took six weeks

336
00:13:18,870 --> 00:13:16,240
to develop the echo one program and that

337
00:13:21,509 --> 00:13:18,880
led to the hopeless diamond or the

338
00:13:23,910 --> 00:13:21,519
faceted flat plate technology

339
00:13:25,750 --> 00:13:23,920
and what we want to keep in mind too is

340
00:13:28,389 --> 00:13:25,760
when you talk about stealth technology

341
00:13:30,710 --> 00:13:28,399
jimmy we've got two approaches

342
00:13:32,829 --> 00:13:30,720
we've got the prismatic approach which

343
00:13:35,990 --> 00:13:32,839
is the faceted flat plate

344
00:13:38,310 --> 00:13:36,000
technology aka lockheed

345
00:13:41,030 --> 00:13:38,320
have blue program and then we've got the

346
00:13:43,269 --> 00:13:41,040
smooth contouring also known as the

347
00:13:45,509 --> 00:13:43,279
continuous curvature

348
00:13:48,069 --> 00:13:45,519
found in the b2 stealth bomber and it's

349
00:13:50,949 --> 00:13:48,079
interesting to note that after the f-117

350
00:13:53,110 --> 00:13:50,959
jimmy we really don't see

351
00:13:55,190 --> 00:13:53,120
any more of these faceted flat plate

352
00:13:57,430 --> 00:13:55,200
stealth aircraft anymore because they

353
00:13:59,670 --> 00:13:57,440
did away with it they're on second third

354
00:14:01,509 --> 00:13:59,680
generation stealth aircraft now and

355
00:14:02,710 --> 00:14:01,519
they've gone to complete continuous

356
00:14:05,509 --> 00:14:02,720
curvature

357
00:14:09,670 --> 00:14:05,519
and the radar cross signature

358
00:14:12,230 --> 00:14:09,680
of the b2 is significantly lower than

359
00:14:14,470 --> 00:14:12,240
the f-117 even though it's larger so

360
00:14:17,189 --> 00:14:14,480
when you talk about stealth technology

361
00:14:19,590 --> 00:14:17,199
it's not size that matters it's shape

362
00:14:23,829 --> 00:14:19,600
that matters jimmy right right

363
00:14:26,230 --> 00:14:23,839
and have blue which when it flew and uh

364
00:14:29,269 --> 00:14:26,240
the original photographs of it

365
00:14:30,949 --> 00:14:29,279
looked fairly close to the final version

366
00:14:32,629 --> 00:14:30,959
of the 117.

367
00:14:34,310 --> 00:14:32,639
kind of yeah yeah

368
00:14:36,870 --> 00:14:34,320
one other thing yep one other thing to

369
00:14:40,230 --> 00:14:36,880
consider is now let's just put this in

370
00:14:44,069 --> 00:14:40,240
an example term here if you have an f-15

371
00:14:45,350 --> 00:14:44,079
on a radar screen the rcs of an f-15

372
00:14:47,670 --> 00:14:45,360
head-on

373
00:14:49,750 --> 00:14:47,680
is 10 square meters

374
00:14:51,590 --> 00:14:49,760
and i i got this from ellen brown i

375
00:14:54,069 --> 00:14:51,600
talked to him for many hours we

376
00:14:56,629 --> 00:14:54,079
discussed this this is interesting jimmy

377
00:14:59,829 --> 00:14:56,639
in order to be effective in order to

378
00:15:02,870 --> 00:14:59,839
really be an effective stealth aircraft

379
00:15:06,150 --> 00:15:02,880
you have to drop that factor down by a

380
00:15:09,110 --> 00:15:06,160
factor of 10 000. so you've got to go

381
00:15:12,069 --> 00:15:09,120
from 10 square meters all the way down

382
00:15:14,550 --> 00:15:12,079
to an eagle's eyeball right even less it

383
00:15:16,069 --> 00:15:14,560
could be a bb right even in ben rich's

384
00:15:18,629 --> 00:15:16,079
book skunk works

385
00:15:21,910 --> 00:15:18,639
uh in order to sell the stealth program

386
00:15:23,269 --> 00:15:21,920
to the pentagon brass uh in washington

387
00:15:25,350 --> 00:15:23,279
at the pentagon

388
00:15:27,430 --> 00:15:25,360
basically he took out these small ball

389
00:15:28,310 --> 00:15:27,440
bearings and rolled them across the

390
00:15:30,069 --> 00:15:28,320
table

391
00:15:31,990 --> 00:15:30,079
to the high-level military brass and

392
00:15:34,150 --> 00:15:32,000
said there's the rcs of your aircraft

393
00:15:37,030 --> 00:15:34,160
and that's how he still sold the program

394
00:15:39,829 --> 00:15:37,040
so here we have uh

395
00:15:40,790 --> 00:15:39,839
an illustration a picture of uh have

396
00:15:42,470 --> 00:15:40,800
blue

397
00:15:44,629 --> 00:15:42,480
being buried

398
00:15:46,230 --> 00:15:44,639
at area 51

399
00:15:47,030 --> 00:15:46,240
that's correct that's correct now this

400
00:15:49,030 --> 00:15:47,040
is

401
00:15:53,189 --> 00:15:49,040
have blue first flight was december 1st

402
00:15:55,829 --> 00:15:53,199
1977 at area 51

403
00:15:57,670 --> 00:15:55,839
basically we've got ben rich there who's

404
00:16:00,069 --> 00:15:57,680
the father of the stealth fighter and

405
00:16:02,230 --> 00:16:00,079
then kelly johnson was there as well and

406
00:16:04,949 --> 00:16:02,240
when this thing took off

407
00:16:06,389 --> 00:16:04,959
uh kelly turned around and patted ben on

408
00:16:08,550 --> 00:16:06,399
the back and he said ben you got your

409
00:16:12,230 --> 00:16:08,560
first aircraft and so that was december

410
00:16:14,629 --> 00:16:12,240
1st 1977. now have blue serial number

411
00:16:18,629 --> 00:16:14,639
hb1001

412
00:16:19,590 --> 00:16:18,639
crashed at groom lake on may

413
00:16:21,670 --> 00:16:19,600
70

414
00:16:23,430 --> 00:16:21,680
uh when they were when he was approached

415
00:16:25,910 --> 00:16:23,440
approaching landing this is bill parker

416
00:16:27,990 --> 00:16:25,920
was the test pilot this aircraft did a

417
00:16:30,949 --> 00:16:28,000
sudden tip up and it hit the main

418
00:16:32,230 --> 00:16:30,959
landing gear so he came around

419
00:16:33,590 --> 00:16:32,240
and he

420
00:16:35,749 --> 00:16:33,600
you know basically came around for a

421
00:16:38,389 --> 00:16:35,759
second pass on approach to landing and

422
00:16:40,949 --> 00:16:38,399
he tried to bring the landing gear down

423
00:16:43,509 --> 00:16:40,959
but only one main landing gear and one

424
00:16:46,150 --> 00:16:43,519
nose gear came down the other main

425
00:16:48,870 --> 00:16:46,160
landing gear did not come down and keep

426
00:16:50,949 --> 00:16:48,880
in mind he's losing fuel rapidly we have

427
00:16:53,350 --> 00:16:50,959
to make a decision so the decision was

428
00:16:57,670 --> 00:16:53,360
he would climb to altitude he punched

429
00:17:00,470 --> 00:16:57,680
out it destroyed uh have blue basically

430
00:17:03,030 --> 00:17:00,480
and then uh bill park was severely

431
00:17:05,669 --> 00:17:03,040
injured in that incident

432
00:17:08,309 --> 00:17:05,679
and that's the point where

433
00:17:10,390 --> 00:17:08,319
have blue later on was buried at groom

434
00:17:12,230 --> 00:17:10,400
lake along with a number of other

435
00:17:15,750 --> 00:17:12,240
classified aircraft as well so we've

436
00:17:18,309 --> 00:17:15,760
just got one example of birds that

437
00:17:20,549 --> 00:17:18,319
after they've served their time or after

438
00:17:22,470 --> 00:17:20,559
they've crashed in many cases they're

439
00:17:24,789 --> 00:17:22,480
buried at the test site never to be seen

440
00:17:28,390 --> 00:17:24,799
again jimmy so there's uh

441
00:17:31,590 --> 00:17:28,400
i've seen pictures of it uh of the uh

442
00:17:34,549 --> 00:17:31,600
the graveyard there at groom lake

443
00:17:36,390 --> 00:17:34,559
and they bury and they burn right don't

444
00:17:39,669 --> 00:17:36,400
they burn these two as well absolutely

445
00:17:40,870 --> 00:17:39,679
absolutely during the f-117 program

446
00:17:43,190 --> 00:17:40,880
there were

447
00:17:45,590 --> 00:17:43,200
two tractor trailers that came to

448
00:17:48,470 --> 00:17:45,600
burbank twice a week

449
00:17:51,909 --> 00:17:48,480
and loaded up with 55 gallon drums of

450
00:17:53,669 --> 00:17:51,919
epoxies resins toxic materials radar

451
00:17:56,549 --> 00:17:53,679
absorbent materials and went all the way

452
00:17:58,630 --> 00:17:56,559
from burbank to groom lake that's a long

453
00:18:01,350 --> 00:17:58,640
drive two of these things and then they

454
00:18:04,070 --> 00:18:01,360
had these large trenches at groom lake

455
00:18:06,950 --> 00:18:04,080
which are located directly adjacent to

456
00:18:09,510 --> 00:18:06,960
the housing area at groom lake as well

457
00:18:12,310 --> 00:18:09,520
so they would offload these toxic

458
00:18:15,350 --> 00:18:12,320
materials in these 55 gallon drums into

459
00:18:17,669 --> 00:18:15,360
these massive deep burn pits and then

460
00:18:19,830 --> 00:18:17,679
they would pour diesel fuel into the

461
00:18:21,750 --> 00:18:19,840
burn pits and then light a torch

462
00:18:24,390 --> 00:18:21,760
throw it into the pits and the whole

463
00:18:27,350 --> 00:18:24,400
thing would go up in flames and all this

464
00:18:29,830 --> 00:18:27,360
black acrid smoke would start

465
00:18:32,390 --> 00:18:29,840
basically going over the residential

466
00:18:34,070 --> 00:18:32,400
area and then that's what's caused all

467
00:18:34,950 --> 00:18:34,080
the osha

468
00:18:36,950 --> 00:18:34,960
type

469
00:18:41,190 --> 00:18:36,960
implementations where there were

470
00:18:43,669 --> 00:18:41,200
lawsuits and many of the area 51 workers

471
00:18:45,350 --> 00:18:43,679
their skin started peeling off in scales

472
00:18:47,190 --> 00:18:45,360
and there were many lawsuits that to

473
00:18:49,029 --> 00:18:47,200
this day have not even been solved so

474
00:18:50,230 --> 00:18:49,039
yeah it blows up in there it blows my

475
00:18:52,470 --> 00:18:50,240
mind that all of this went down to

476
00:18:53,350 --> 00:18:52,480
burbank and the

477
00:18:56,549 --> 00:18:53,360
uh

478
00:18:58,310 --> 00:18:56,559
lockheed's credit union is still there

479
00:18:59,909 --> 00:18:58,320
it's right across the street from

480
00:19:01,750 --> 00:18:59,919
burbank airport

481
00:19:04,150 --> 00:19:01,760
and i was a member of that credit union

482
00:19:07,190 --> 00:19:04,160
for a minute and uh but

483
00:19:08,950 --> 00:19:07,200
it's the skunk works credit union right

484
00:19:12,549 --> 00:19:08,960
it's right there

485
00:19:15,830 --> 00:19:12,559
at the entrance of uh burbank airport

486
00:19:16,950 --> 00:19:15,840
and that it's the last remat reminder to

487
00:19:19,029 --> 00:19:16,960
everybody

488
00:19:21,909 --> 00:19:19,039
about the footprint that had uh that

489
00:19:23,830 --> 00:19:21,919
lock he'd had right there in burbank all

490
00:19:25,990 --> 00:19:23,840
right before we get to the break uh

491
00:19:27,190 --> 00:19:26,000
let's go on to the

492
00:19:28,310 --> 00:19:27,200
uh

493
00:19:31,510 --> 00:19:28,320
the

494
00:19:34,070 --> 00:19:31,520
sr-71 drone accident right i'm gonna

495
00:19:35,990 --> 00:19:34,080
hold this up uh what are we looking at

496
00:19:36,789 --> 00:19:36,000
here where did this happen

497
00:19:38,230 --> 00:19:36,799
so

498
00:19:40,070 --> 00:19:38,240
when we talk about the blackbird we

499
00:19:43,190 --> 00:19:40,080
should talk about the different variants

500
00:19:45,669 --> 00:19:43,200
so first of all you've got the a12 which

501
00:19:47,669 --> 00:19:45,679
was the single seat cia reconnaissance

502
00:19:49,430 --> 00:19:47,679
aircraft you've got something called the

503
00:19:51,590 --> 00:19:49,440
yf-12

504
00:19:53,909 --> 00:19:51,600
which was an interceptor that actually

505
00:19:55,350 --> 00:19:53,919
never made it into production for full

506
00:20:00,070 --> 00:19:55,360
scale production

507
00:20:02,070 --> 00:20:00,080
you've also got the m21 d21 tag board

508
00:20:03,909 --> 00:20:02,080
program which was a mother ship

509
00:20:06,150 --> 00:20:03,919
daughtership

510
00:20:06,870 --> 00:20:06,160
parasitic aircraft and then you've got

511
00:20:19,510 --> 00:20:06,880
the

512
00:20:23,350 --> 00:20:19,520
incident that we're talking about here

513
00:20:26,870 --> 00:20:23,360
this took place july 30th 1966

514
00:20:28,470 --> 00:20:26,880
at altitude off the coast of san diego

515
00:20:30,390 --> 00:20:28,480
and basically

516
00:20:33,430 --> 00:20:30,400
they're going to launch this parasitic

517
00:20:34,390 --> 00:20:33,440
drone off the back of the m51 at

518
00:20:36,230 --> 00:20:34,400
altitude

519
00:20:37,990 --> 00:20:36,240
and when they launched this thing

520
00:20:41,270 --> 00:20:38,000
immediately it seemed like everything

521
00:20:44,549 --> 00:20:41,280
was okay but for some strange reason

522
00:20:47,190 --> 00:20:44,559
the d21 drone got caught into the shock

523
00:20:49,909 --> 00:20:47,200
wave of the m50 m21

524
00:20:53,350 --> 00:20:49,919
and it pitched to the left jimmy and

525
00:20:54,870 --> 00:20:53,360
pitched down and hit basically station

526
00:20:57,830 --> 00:20:54,880
715

527
00:21:00,630 --> 00:20:57,840
where the wing root meets the fuselage

528
00:21:03,029 --> 00:21:00,640
exactly where the delta wing begins from

529
00:21:05,110 --> 00:21:03,039
the tapering portion of the chine

530
00:21:06,070 --> 00:21:05,120
section and it split the aircraft into

531
00:21:08,789 --> 00:21:06,080
jimmy

532
00:21:10,630 --> 00:21:08,799
and bill park he was the test pilot and

533
00:21:13,350 --> 00:21:10,640
he basically said that

534
00:21:15,430 --> 00:21:13,360
when i saw pieces flying ahead of me i

535
00:21:17,669 --> 00:21:15,440
knew i had a problem

536
00:21:19,750 --> 00:21:17,679
so you can imagine all this debris and

537
00:21:21,669 --> 00:21:19,760
all these pieces of shrapnel and

538
00:21:25,029 --> 00:21:21,679
mechanical parts were flying ahead of

539
00:21:26,789 --> 00:21:25,039
him and in he's in this mach3 aircraft

540
00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:26,799
and he's got debris flying ahead of him

541
00:21:30,630 --> 00:21:29,200
so he knew something was going on so he

542
00:21:33,909 --> 00:21:30,640
punched out

543
00:21:35,510 --> 00:21:33,919
but ray torrick uh he drowned he did not

544
00:21:38,789 --> 00:21:35,520
survive the incident and that's

545
00:21:40,630 --> 00:21:38,799
essentially the m21 d21 incident it's a

546
00:21:42,710 --> 00:21:40,640
historic event it's it's actually never

547
00:21:45,350 --> 00:21:42,720
been illustrated and i want to give

548
00:21:47,750 --> 00:21:45,360
credit to my illustrator friend tom

549
00:21:49,430 --> 00:21:47,760
bogan for doing these illustrations yeah

550
00:21:50,630 --> 00:21:49,440
tom is incredible

551
00:21:53,190 --> 00:21:50,640
preserving an important part of our

552
00:21:54,549 --> 00:21:53,200
national history absolutely the d21

553
00:21:58,630 --> 00:21:54,559
which is here

554
00:22:01,750 --> 00:21:58,640
was uh the as far as i know was the

555
00:22:03,750 --> 00:22:01,760
first stealth drone you know and that's

556
00:22:06,390 --> 00:22:03,760
the way that this was designed

557
00:22:07,430 --> 00:22:06,400
and they needed uh they didn't know if

558
00:22:09,669 --> 00:22:07,440
uh

559
00:22:12,470 --> 00:22:09,679
the sr-71 was going to make it across

560
00:22:14,549 --> 00:22:12,480
china or russia anymore

561
00:22:15,590 --> 00:22:14,559
and they didn't want to risk pilots

562
00:22:18,950 --> 00:22:15,600
lives

563
00:22:20,070 --> 00:22:18,960
so they devised this idea to have a

564
00:22:23,669 --> 00:22:20,080
drone

565
00:22:25,310 --> 00:22:23,679
fly at these speeds it looked remarkably

566
00:22:28,789 --> 00:22:25,320
like a miniature

567
00:22:31,669 --> 00:22:28,799
sr-71 i've seen it i've seen it in

568
00:22:34,230 --> 00:22:31,679
person i photographed myself next to it

569
00:22:36,950 --> 00:22:34,240
up in seattle at the boeing museum up

570
00:22:39,270 --> 00:22:36,960
there and uh it's a it's a pretty

571
00:22:41,830 --> 00:22:39,280
incredible it's not very big

572
00:22:44,230 --> 00:22:41,840
it looks big uh the sr-71 isn't even

573
00:22:47,669 --> 00:22:44,240
that big when you stand up next to it

574
00:22:50,950 --> 00:22:47,679
but the drone and this idea that they

575
00:22:53,990 --> 00:22:50,960
had all the way back into the 70s is uh

576
00:22:56,950 --> 00:22:54,000
pretty crazy to me we were making leaps

577
00:22:58,149 --> 00:22:56,960
and leaps in in technology

578
00:22:59,669 --> 00:22:58,159
um

579
00:23:02,070 --> 00:22:59,679
pretty incredible so this was off the

580
00:23:04,710 --> 00:23:02,080
coast of san diego that's correct that

581
00:23:07,029 --> 00:23:04,720
is correct absolutely incredible okay

582
00:23:09,190 --> 00:23:07,039
when we come back after the break which

583
00:23:10,789 --> 00:23:09,200
we're going to do here in 30 seconds

584
00:23:12,310 --> 00:23:10,799
we're going to discuss one of my

585
00:23:14,950 --> 00:23:12,320
favorite planes another one that i've

586
00:23:18,230 --> 00:23:14,960
seen multiple times in person which is

587
00:23:20,149 --> 00:23:18,240
uh the valkyrie the v70 which is right

588
00:23:22,549 --> 00:23:20,159
here we'll be discussing this when we

589
00:23:23,590 --> 00:23:22,559
come back our guest tonight michael

590
00:23:26,789 --> 00:23:23,600
schratt

591
00:23:29,110 --> 00:23:26,799
and like michael said all of this is

592
00:23:30,870 --> 00:23:29,120
building the foundation to some pretty

593
00:23:32,630 --> 00:23:30,880
incredible stuff that we are going to be

594
00:23:34,310 --> 00:23:32,640
discussing in a little bit when it comes

595
00:23:36,710 --> 00:23:34,320
to ufos

596
00:23:39,549 --> 00:23:36,720
i'm your host jimmy church this is fade

597
00:23:43,510 --> 00:23:39,559
to black on the game changer network and

598
00:23:46,870 --> 00:23:43,520
kgra the planet more with mr schrad

599
00:23:49,669 --> 00:23:46,880
after this short break stay with us

600
00:23:51,669 --> 00:23:49,679
you're listening to a preview of fade to

601
00:23:54,070 --> 00:23:51,679
black to get the full episode go to

602
00:23:56,789 --> 00:23:54,080
chimneychurchradio.com

603
00:23:59,510 --> 00:23:56,799
and get our podcast click on the podcast

604
00:24:02,630 --> 00:23:59,520
banner or sign up in the membership area

605
00:24:03,930 --> 00:24:02,640
for downloadable mp3s everything

606
00:24:05,350 --> 00:24:03,940
commercial free

607
00:24:07,430 --> 00:24:05,360
[Music]

608
00:24:08,789 --> 00:24:07,440
welcome back bay to black i'm you'll see

609
00:24:10,710 --> 00:24:08,799
me church i guess tonight michael

610
00:24:12,789 --> 00:24:10,720
schratt

611
00:24:15,830 --> 00:24:12,799
now for those of you out there all of

612
00:24:17,669 --> 00:24:15,840
these images and documents i am holding

613
00:24:20,470 --> 00:24:17,679
up to the bunker cam

614
00:24:23,750 --> 00:24:20,480
for all of you in uh the member area

615
00:24:25,590 --> 00:24:23,760
looking at this live on video

616
00:24:28,149 --> 00:24:25,600
and uh kevin

617
00:24:30,549 --> 00:24:28,159
and and others but kevin is also posting

618
00:24:31,909 --> 00:24:30,559
pictures up on twitter of the bunker cam

619
00:24:34,789 --> 00:24:31,919
thank you for that kevin that's very

620
00:24:36,789 --> 00:24:34,799
cool of you to take the time to do that

621
00:24:38,630 --> 00:24:36,799
michael let's get straight back to it

622
00:24:43,830 --> 00:24:38,640
we've got too much to cover

623
00:24:46,789 --> 00:24:43,840
uh the xb70 which again is one of my

624
00:24:49,909 --> 00:24:46,799
i've got a few favorite planes i do we

625
00:24:51,990 --> 00:24:49,919
all do right xb70 is right there i still

626
00:24:54,950 --> 00:24:52,000
love the b-58 hustler

627
00:24:58,630 --> 00:24:54,960
one of the coolest planes ever the f-104

628
00:25:02,149 --> 00:24:58,640
the f-104 to me hands down sexiest plane

629
00:25:03,909 --> 00:25:02,159
ever ever ever designed you know x-15

630
00:25:06,710 --> 00:25:03,919
yes you know

631
00:25:10,070 --> 00:25:06,720
yes yes i love my planes

632
00:25:11,510 --> 00:25:10,080
but the valkyrie there's something about

633
00:25:16,070 --> 00:25:11,520
this plane

634
00:25:17,190 --> 00:25:16,080
that is uh not only sexy but it looks

635
00:25:19,750 --> 00:25:17,200
it looks

636
00:25:22,230 --> 00:25:19,760
way too advanced and to think about when

637
00:25:24,230 --> 00:25:22,240
it was designed and when it flew

638
00:25:27,190 --> 00:25:24,240
uh i thought that we were heading

639
00:25:29,990 --> 00:25:27,200
straight into uh the space age with this

640
00:25:33,190 --> 00:25:30,000
plane and then we have this

641
00:25:35,190 --> 00:25:33,200
the xb70 valkyrie crash how many were

642
00:25:37,590 --> 00:25:35,200
built too right just two

643
00:25:39,590 --> 00:25:37,600
only two but then the extrusions for air

644
00:25:41,909 --> 00:25:39,600
vehicle number three were produced but

645
00:25:43,990 --> 00:25:41,919
never built right right yeah you're a

646
00:25:47,430 --> 00:25:44,000
historian you know these things so the

647
00:25:50,789 --> 00:25:47,440
one remaining valkyrie is at right pat

648
00:25:53,350 --> 00:25:50,799
in uh cincinnati in dayton ohio yes

649
00:25:56,390 --> 00:25:53,360
correct and and then we have this

650
00:25:59,350 --> 00:25:56,400
accident what happened here okay uh

651
00:26:01,669 --> 00:25:59,360
before we go into that i want to hit

652
00:26:04,149 --> 00:26:01,679
three quotes by ben that we've kind of

653
00:26:06,070 --> 00:26:04,159
reviewed but just to to set that up and

654
00:26:07,909 --> 00:26:06,080
then we're going to hit the aircraft so

655
00:26:08,789 --> 00:26:07,919
just really quickly going back to ben

656
00:26:10,630 --> 00:26:08,799
rich

657
00:26:13,909 --> 00:26:10,640
and i think we know that he was head of

658
00:26:15,669 --> 00:26:13,919
skunk works between 1975 to 1991

659
00:26:19,029 --> 00:26:15,679
he made an interesting statement on

660
00:26:21,430 --> 00:26:19,039
september 7 1988 this is at the aia

661
00:26:23,029 --> 00:26:21,440
meeting in atlanta georgia here he says

662
00:26:25,269 --> 00:26:23,039
quote i wish i could tell you about the

663
00:26:27,590 --> 00:26:25,279
projects we are currently working on

664
00:26:30,390 --> 00:26:27,600
they are both fascinating and fantastic

665
00:26:33,750 --> 00:26:30,400
they call for technologies once only

666
00:26:34,549 --> 00:26:33,760
dreamed of by science fiction writers

667
00:26:36,630 --> 00:26:34,559
so

668
00:26:39,190 --> 00:26:36,640
it's like pregnant with possibilities

669
00:26:41,750 --> 00:26:39,200
what has been alluding to right what

670
00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:41,760
could they be doing right and then

671
00:26:46,390 --> 00:26:44,080
you know jim the other two people were

672
00:26:50,230 --> 00:26:46,400
talking about here uh he made another

673
00:26:52,390 --> 00:26:50,240
statement on march 23 1993 at the ucla

674
00:26:54,950 --> 00:26:52,400
alumni club where he gave another

675
00:26:57,430 --> 00:26:54,960
lecture this is two years uh prior to

676
00:26:58,710 --> 00:26:57,440
his passing in 1995.

677
00:27:01,350 --> 00:26:58,720
tom

678
00:27:03,750 --> 00:27:01,360
keller was there and jan harzin they

679
00:27:06,710 --> 00:27:03,760
both confirmed that ben rich said the

680
00:27:09,830 --> 00:27:06,720
following statement quote anything you

681
00:27:12,630 --> 00:27:09,840
can imagine the skunk works can do

682
00:27:14,310 --> 00:27:12,640
or has already done okay

683
00:27:16,470 --> 00:27:14,320
so i thought that was interesting and

684
00:27:20,230 --> 00:27:16,480
then finally just before ben passed away

685
00:27:21,669 --> 00:27:20,240
in 1995 he got in a final conversation

686
00:27:24,630 --> 00:27:21,679
phone call with my good friend jim

687
00:27:26,870 --> 00:27:24,640
goodall and ben rich told jim goodall

688
00:27:29,350 --> 00:27:26,880
over the phone he said jim we have

689
00:27:31,750 --> 00:27:29,360
things in the nevada desert that are 50

690
00:27:33,830 --> 00:27:31,760
years beyond what you can comprehend if

691
00:27:35,590 --> 00:27:33,840
you've seen it on star wars or star trek

692
00:27:37,590 --> 00:27:35,600
we've been there done that or decided it

693
00:27:39,590 --> 00:27:37,600
wasn't worth the effort coming directly

694
00:27:41,110 --> 00:27:39,600
from ben rich that's right and his other

695
00:27:42,149 --> 00:27:41,120
famous quote

696
00:27:46,230 --> 00:27:42,159
uh

697
00:27:47,909 --> 00:27:46,240
we have the technology to take e.t home

698
00:27:50,470 --> 00:27:47,919
sure right all right you know i'm

699
00:27:52,630 --> 00:27:50,480
paraphrasing nope that's right yeah yeah

700
00:27:55,110 --> 00:27:52,640
that's uh pretty incredible okay the

701
00:27:57,430 --> 00:27:55,120
valkyrie xb70 you want to do the

702
00:27:59,269 --> 00:27:57,440
valkyrie okay so that's a little bit out

703
00:28:01,830 --> 00:27:59,279
of order but that's

704
00:28:03,669 --> 00:28:01,840
are we out of order well we we have the

705
00:28:05,029 --> 00:28:03,679
list the next one on the list is george

706
00:28:08,310 --> 00:28:05,039
air force base

707
00:28:10,230 --> 00:28:08,320
oh there it is right there okay yep

708
00:28:11,110 --> 00:28:10,240
george air force okay so this is a

709
00:28:13,269 --> 00:28:11,120
letter

710
00:28:15,590 --> 00:28:13,279
that i received from john andrews the

711
00:28:19,029 --> 00:28:15,600
the john andrews collection was donated

712
00:28:21,430 --> 00:28:19,039
to my historical archives back in 2013

713
00:28:24,070 --> 00:28:21,440
john andrews for anyone who doesn't know

714
00:28:26,470 --> 00:28:24,080
was the senior project design engineer

715
00:28:28,870 --> 00:28:26,480
testers model corporation san diego he

716
00:28:31,909 --> 00:28:28,880
was the one that designed the low

717
00:28:35,029 --> 00:28:31,919
observable stealth aircraft prior to the

718
00:28:37,590 --> 00:28:35,039
f-117 be acknowledged by the air force

719
00:28:40,870 --> 00:28:37,600
on nov november the 10th of 1988. so

720
00:28:43,510 --> 00:28:40,880
he's the one who started the whole

721
00:28:46,549 --> 00:28:43,520
hurrah about stealth aircraft and he's

722
00:28:48,310 --> 00:28:46,559
the f-19 was in there as well but

723
00:28:49,909 --> 00:28:48,320
john andrews was the original

724
00:28:51,510 --> 00:28:49,919
interceptor that started the black

725
00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:51,520
aircraft research

726
00:28:55,590 --> 00:28:53,440
so i've got a letter here from

727
00:28:58,789 --> 00:28:55,600
john andrews to ben rich

728
00:29:01,350 --> 00:28:58,799
and this is dated august 14 1981 so this

729
00:29:02,230 --> 00:29:01,360
is really early on even in the stealth

730
00:29:05,269 --> 00:29:02,240
program

731
00:29:08,870 --> 00:29:05,279
says ben rich your crew responsible for

732
00:29:11,110 --> 00:29:08,880
two very strange birds leaving at dawn

733
00:29:14,230 --> 00:29:11,120
just at first light from george air

734
00:29:16,789 --> 00:29:14,240
force base near victorville california

735
00:29:19,669 --> 00:29:16,799
one white one gray

736
00:29:21,190 --> 00:29:19,679
said to be very lippish-like alexander

737
00:29:23,909 --> 00:29:21,200
lippisch flying wing

738
00:29:26,310 --> 00:29:23,919
good acceleration good climb don't

739
00:29:27,510 --> 00:29:26,320
loiter around george and not seen for

740
00:29:30,149 --> 00:29:27,520
rest of day

741
00:29:31,269 --> 00:29:30,159
attached sketch may or may not be

742
00:29:34,230 --> 00:29:31,279
accurate

743
00:29:37,110 --> 00:29:34,240
could it be code 85 birds might be into

744
00:29:40,230 --> 00:29:37,120
a base as relatively open as george air

745
00:29:42,789 --> 00:29:40,240
force base could it be that would be the

746
00:29:44,870 --> 00:29:42,799
last place eyes from other side would

747
00:29:47,350 --> 00:29:44,880
look for them could it be that's why

748
00:29:50,149 --> 00:29:47,360
they are there regards john andrews so

749
00:29:52,149 --> 00:29:50,159
talking about an alexander lippisch

750
00:29:54,470 --> 00:29:52,159
flying wing craft

751
00:29:56,230 --> 00:29:54,480
it looks like two of these departed

752
00:29:57,830 --> 00:29:56,240
according to john andrews sketch now you

753
00:30:00,070 --> 00:29:57,840
have the full color illustration yeah

754
00:30:02,470 --> 00:30:00,080
i'm holding out original sketch i've got

755
00:30:05,830 --> 00:30:02,480
the original sketch here i'm holding it

756
00:30:09,110 --> 00:30:05,840
up there it is yep and then the

757
00:30:10,389 --> 00:30:09,120
illustration of these two above george

758
00:30:13,590 --> 00:30:10,399
air force base

759
00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:13,600
and that's uh there you go incredible

760
00:30:18,230 --> 00:30:15,600
yep jim goodall was aware of it as well

761
00:30:21,590 --> 00:30:18,240
so what we're looking at here is a

762
00:30:23,590 --> 00:30:21,600
single pilot kind of a blended wing

763
00:30:25,590 --> 00:30:23,600
flying wing configuration with a

764
00:30:28,070 --> 00:30:25,600
vertical stabilizer which would have

765
00:30:30,789 --> 00:30:28,080
definitely increased the rcs no doubt

766
00:30:33,110 --> 00:30:30,799
about it like in the f-117 you've got

767
00:30:34,870 --> 00:30:33,120
the twin outward cannon vertical

768
00:30:36,789 --> 00:30:34,880
stabilizers here you've got a vertical

769
00:30:39,110 --> 00:30:36,799
coming straight up so that would have

770
00:30:41,750 --> 00:30:39,120
definitely bumped up the rcs then you've

771
00:30:43,990 --> 00:30:41,760
got an air intake on either side of the

772
00:30:46,630 --> 00:30:44,000
center line of the aircraft winglets

773
00:30:49,590 --> 00:30:46,640
coming down and then engine inlets that

774
00:30:52,149 --> 00:30:49,600
are buried within the fuselage itself or

775
00:30:55,590 --> 00:30:52,159
the top portion of the wing and then the

776
00:30:57,430 --> 00:30:55,600
exhaust ports are kind of set aft of the

777
00:30:59,590 --> 00:30:57,440
trailing edge

778
00:31:02,149 --> 00:30:59,600
very similar to how they are on the b2

779
00:31:04,710 --> 00:31:02,159
to reduce the infrared signature so that

780
00:31:07,430 --> 00:31:04,720
a sam site below could not hit that part

781
00:31:10,389 --> 00:31:07,440
so kind of an early concept

782
00:31:13,110 --> 00:31:10,399
that's all jimmy we have on this very

783
00:31:14,389 --> 00:31:13,120
little slightly vague information but it

784
00:31:15,990 --> 00:31:14,399
could be one of these birds that is

785
00:31:19,830 --> 00:31:16,000
still lurking out there today yeah

786
00:31:21,430 --> 00:31:19,840
incredible incredible illustration and

787
00:31:22,950 --> 00:31:21,440
the illustration does take it to the

788
00:31:24,950 --> 00:31:22,960
next level but

789
00:31:26,149 --> 00:31:24,960
the original sketch which i'm going to

790
00:31:28,230 --> 00:31:26,159
hold up again

791
00:31:30,310 --> 00:31:28,240
that just makes my hair stand up that's

792
00:31:34,470 --> 00:31:30,320
that's pretty incredible

793
00:31:35,750 --> 00:31:34,480
pretty incredible stuff

794
00:31:39,029 --> 00:31:35,760
okay

795
00:31:43,750 --> 00:31:41,509
what's that accelerator the accelerator

796
00:31:46,789 --> 00:31:43,760
the accelerator okay now credit has to

797
00:31:49,190 --> 00:31:46,799
go to the bill scott collection for this

798
00:31:51,430 --> 00:31:49,200
former rocky mountain editor of aviation

799
00:31:53,990 --> 00:31:51,440
week space technology who was another

800
00:31:56,149 --> 00:31:54,000
black aircraft researcher was basically

801
00:31:58,230 --> 00:31:56,159
in it for his entire career

802
00:32:00,149 --> 00:31:58,240
and uh was given access to the bill

803
00:32:03,590 --> 00:32:00,159
scott collection so i got to give credit

804
00:32:06,070 --> 00:32:03,600
to bill scott now all we have here is

805
00:32:09,430 --> 00:32:06,080
one rough pencil sketch which i'm

806
00:32:12,230 --> 00:32:09,440
holding up to the cameras now and two

807
00:32:15,029 --> 00:32:12,240
yep okay well before before we get there

808
00:32:16,389 --> 00:32:15,039
the original pencil sketch

809
00:32:19,830 --> 00:32:16,399
which is here

810
00:32:21,110 --> 00:32:19,840
says groom lake 1994 hypersonic

811
00:32:22,789 --> 00:32:21,120
interceptor

812
00:32:27,029 --> 00:32:22,799
uh kt

813
00:32:28,549 --> 00:32:27,039
kjth uh 150 feet mach

814
00:32:30,389 --> 00:32:28,559
14.

815
00:32:32,070 --> 00:32:30,399
and that is what is on here is the

816
00:32:34,389 --> 00:32:32,080
original sketch

817
00:32:38,389 --> 00:32:34,399
look at that that is absolutely

818
00:32:40,470 --> 00:32:38,399
incredible and it says groom lake 1994

819
00:32:42,149 --> 00:32:40,480
and you can see all of the writing

820
00:32:43,750 --> 00:32:42,159
underneath but now i'm gonna hold it

821
00:32:44,789 --> 00:32:43,760
still for the camera

822
00:32:47,669 --> 00:32:44,799
okay now

823
00:32:49,990 --> 00:32:47,679
uh when you look on the title of this

824
00:32:51,830 --> 00:32:50,000
bird what is it called jimmy we just

825
00:32:53,190 --> 00:32:51,840
talked about what is this bird called

826
00:32:59,590 --> 00:32:53,200
accelerator

827
00:33:02,710 --> 00:32:59,600
the black community

828
00:33:04,470 --> 00:33:02,720
they give these birds nicknames okay

829
00:33:06,470 --> 00:33:04,480
there's one called the zipper there's

830
00:33:08,389 --> 00:33:06,480
one called the accelerator and it just

831
00:33:11,909 --> 00:33:08,399
goes on and on they actually give these

832
00:33:14,870 --> 00:33:11,919
birds nicknames so a key to what this

833
00:33:16,870 --> 00:33:14,880
thing does is within the nickname itself

834
00:33:18,549 --> 00:33:16,880
and look at the configuration jimmy

835
00:33:21,590 --> 00:33:18,559
we've got a large

836
00:33:23,190 --> 00:33:21,600
blended wing 75 degree swept wing

837
00:33:25,750 --> 00:33:23,200
configuration

838
00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:25,760
with what looks like scramjet intakes on

839
00:33:29,350 --> 00:33:26,880
the bottom

840
00:33:31,909 --> 00:33:29,360
this thing may actually have solid

841
00:33:33,830 --> 00:33:31,919
billet aluminum wheels because approach

842
00:33:36,310 --> 00:33:33,840
to landing would be very high on this

843
00:33:38,710 --> 00:33:36,320
thing it'd have a high landing speed so

844
00:33:42,070 --> 00:33:38,720
if you look at this jimmy

845
00:33:44,710 --> 00:33:42,080
this looks a whole lot like the nasp

846
00:33:46,070 --> 00:33:44,720
program the x30 the national air and

847
00:33:48,549 --> 00:33:46,080
space program

848
00:33:51,750 --> 00:33:48,559
and just after the challenger explosion

849
00:33:53,269 --> 00:33:51,760
on january 28 1986

850
00:33:55,509 --> 00:33:53,279
president reagan

851
00:33:57,750 --> 00:33:55,519
actually had to delay

852
00:33:59,669 --> 00:33:57,760
his state of the union address

853
00:34:02,710 --> 00:33:59,679
this is reported in new york times

854
00:34:04,389 --> 00:34:02,720
february 5th 1986 and this is ronald

855
00:34:06,870 --> 00:34:04,399
reagan speaking here

856
00:34:10,149 --> 00:34:06,880
ronald reagan state of the union address

857
00:34:13,589 --> 00:34:10,159
1986 he said we quote we are going

858
00:34:15,669 --> 00:34:13,599
forward with research on a new orient

859
00:34:18,710 --> 00:34:15,679
express that could by the end of the

860
00:34:21,829 --> 00:34:18,720
next decade take off from dulles airport

861
00:34:24,710 --> 00:34:21,839
and accelerate up to 25 times the speed

862
00:34:28,389 --> 00:34:24,720
of sound attaining low earth orbit or

863
00:34:30,470 --> 00:34:28,399
flying to tokyo within two hours

864
00:34:32,629 --> 00:34:30,480
according to ronald reagan

865
00:34:35,589 --> 00:34:32,639
okay and why is this important because

866
00:34:38,550 --> 00:34:35,599
even even president reagan talks about

867
00:34:40,470 --> 00:34:38,560
how this thing is going to accelerate

868
00:34:43,270 --> 00:34:40,480
out to 25 times the speed of sound

869
00:34:44,310 --> 00:34:43,280
that's exactly what the nasp program was

870
00:34:47,109 --> 00:34:44,320
all about

871
00:34:49,589 --> 00:34:47,119
and you can't do that on conventional

872
00:34:51,990 --> 00:34:49,599
technology jimmy because remember this

873
00:34:54,470 --> 00:34:52,000
thing has to has to taxi out of the

874
00:34:56,710 --> 00:34:54,480
hangar and then go on to the tarmac and

875
00:34:59,270 --> 00:34:56,720
then go on to the active runway at groom

876
00:35:02,870 --> 00:34:59,280
lake so we're looking jimmy

877
00:35:06,230 --> 00:35:02,880
at a combined cycle scramjet propulsion

878
00:35:08,790 --> 00:35:06,240
system and this is totally consistent

879
00:35:10,550 --> 00:35:08,800
with what we know about either manned or

880
00:35:14,470 --> 00:35:10,560
unmanned reconnaissance aircraft because

881
00:35:16,310 --> 00:35:14,480
when the sr-71 was retired in 1990

882
00:35:19,109 --> 00:35:16,320
a lot of people said that satellites

883
00:35:20,630 --> 00:35:19,119
could do the job this is 1990 satellites

884
00:35:22,310 --> 00:35:20,640
could do the job we no longer need the

885
00:35:24,790 --> 00:35:22,320
blackbird

886
00:35:26,150 --> 00:35:24,800
but that's not entirely correct because

887
00:35:27,990 --> 00:35:26,160
number one

888
00:35:30,230 --> 00:35:28,000
satellites have predictable orbits

889
00:35:32,230 --> 00:35:30,240
number two once they run out of fuel

890
00:35:34,870 --> 00:35:32,240
their paper rates jimmy they're absolute

891
00:35:36,550 --> 00:35:34,880
paperweights they're useless so

892
00:35:40,069 --> 00:35:36,560
by default

893
00:35:42,310 --> 00:35:40,079
we need either a manned or unmanned

894
00:35:45,190 --> 00:35:42,320
hypersonic aircraft that works in

895
00:35:47,670 --> 00:35:45,200
conjunction with the satellites and this

896
00:35:49,910 --> 00:35:47,680
thing this bird whatever it is could

897
00:35:53,109 --> 00:35:49,920
look a lot like this nas program or the

898
00:35:55,349 --> 00:35:53,119
accelerator it has to be anywhere in the

899
00:35:56,790 --> 00:35:55,359
world in less than two hours exactly

900
00:35:58,950 --> 00:35:56,800
what ronald reagan is talking about

901
00:36:00,630 --> 00:35:58,960
right here yeah incredible incredible

902
00:36:05,430 --> 00:36:00,640
incredible

903
00:36:07,750 --> 00:36:05,440
okay next on the list

904
00:36:09,190 --> 00:36:07,760
next on the list

905
00:36:11,510 --> 00:36:09,200
okay

906
00:36:15,270 --> 00:36:11,520
so we're going to move over

907
00:36:16,790 --> 00:36:15,280
to our united 934

908
00:36:19,670 --> 00:36:16,800
and we've got some good documentation

909
00:36:21,030 --> 00:36:19,680
yeah this this is uh this is pretty

910
00:36:22,870 --> 00:36:21,040
mind-blowing

911
00:36:25,349 --> 00:36:22,880
and i like i like this one a lot yeah

912
00:36:26,390 --> 00:36:25,359
the documentation uh takes it to a whole

913
00:36:27,270 --> 00:36:26,400
nother level

914
00:36:31,750 --> 00:36:27,280
okay

915
00:36:33,190 --> 00:36:31,760
reference material just so that people

916
00:36:34,870 --> 00:36:33,200
don't think i'm making this up you can

917
00:36:38,550 --> 00:36:34,880
verify it for yourself

918
00:36:41,510 --> 00:36:38,560
this is august 24th 1992

919
00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:41,520
aviation week space technology and also

920
00:36:46,710 --> 00:36:44,560
the news tribune september 5th 1992

921
00:36:49,270 --> 00:36:46,720
that's the reference material for this

922
00:36:52,390 --> 00:36:49,280
this is also news tribune tacoma

923
00:36:55,109 --> 00:36:52,400
washington september 5th 1992

924
00:36:57,349 --> 00:36:55,119
subheading flight of mystery plane

925
00:36:59,589 --> 00:36:57,359
leaves many questions for pentagon to

926
00:37:03,430 --> 00:36:59,599
answer and then on the av week article

927
00:37:05,109 --> 00:37:03,440
the subtitle is united 747 crew reports

928
00:37:08,150 --> 00:37:05,119
near collision with mysterious

929
00:37:11,510 --> 00:37:08,160
supersonic aircraft so bottom line here

930
00:37:13,670 --> 00:37:11,520
jimmy is you've got a 747 heavy taking

931
00:37:16,390 --> 00:37:13,680
off from lax it's heading to london's

932
00:37:18,150 --> 00:37:16,400
heathrow airport taking up a magnetic

933
00:37:20,790 --> 00:37:18,160
40-degree heading

934
00:37:23,270 --> 00:37:20,800
this is august 5th 1992 when this

935
00:37:26,790 --> 00:37:23,280
actually took place they're at 23 000

936
00:37:29,270 --> 00:37:26,800
feet jimmy and then all of a sudden

937
00:37:30,710 --> 00:37:29,280
some type of a mysterious bird comes

938
00:37:33,829 --> 00:37:30,720
screaming

939
00:37:36,150 --> 00:37:33,839
under the 747 and they estimate pilot

940
00:37:38,630 --> 00:37:36,160
and co-pilot got an eight to ten second

941
00:37:40,150 --> 00:37:38,640
sighting it was a long duration sighting

942
00:37:41,270 --> 00:37:40,160
eight to ten seconds that's a long

943
00:37:44,630 --> 00:37:41,280
duration

944
00:37:47,430 --> 00:37:44,640
between 500 and a thousand feet below

945
00:37:49,190 --> 00:37:47,440
the 747 and they believed

946
00:37:50,950 --> 00:37:49,200
it was going supersonic it was their

947
00:37:52,710 --> 00:37:50,960
assessment pilot called pilot that this

948
00:37:54,790 --> 00:37:52,720
bird was going super sonic now i'm gonna

949
00:37:56,310 --> 00:37:54,800
hold up to the camera really quick uh

950
00:37:58,630 --> 00:37:56,320
i've got uh

951
00:38:00,230 --> 00:37:58,640
uh two sketches of the and these are

952
00:38:02,470 --> 00:38:00,240
from the pilots

953
00:38:04,230 --> 00:38:02,480
uh we believe these are from john

954
00:38:05,829 --> 00:38:04,240
andrews sent to the bill scott

955
00:38:07,670 --> 00:38:05,839
collection got it

956
00:38:09,750 --> 00:38:07,680
and this is

957
00:38:11,990 --> 00:38:09,760
number one

958
00:38:14,630 --> 00:38:12,000
gonna hold this up and uh with a

959
00:38:17,190 --> 00:38:14,640
complete description on what was

960
00:38:19,270 --> 00:38:17,200
witnessed all hand written

961
00:38:21,190 --> 00:38:19,280
there's that and then

962
00:38:24,630 --> 00:38:21,200
this top view

963
00:38:26,310 --> 00:38:24,640
correct which is just mind-blowing

964
00:38:27,670 --> 00:38:26,320
i i don't even know what to make of this

965
00:38:30,230 --> 00:38:27,680
but that's uh

966
00:38:33,190 --> 00:38:30,240
that's what they described incredible is

967
00:38:35,670 --> 00:38:33,200
is a blended lifting body configuration

968
00:38:39,589 --> 00:38:35,680
that looked like the forward part of an

969
00:38:42,230 --> 00:38:39,599
sr-71 blackbird it had an x-15 splitter

970
00:38:44,310 --> 00:38:42,240
single canopy near the front there was

971
00:38:47,589 --> 00:38:44,320
an air intake on either side of the

972
00:38:49,910 --> 00:38:47,599
center line and then twin inward candid

973
00:38:51,750 --> 00:38:49,920
vertical stabilizers on this bird and

974
00:38:54,069 --> 00:38:51,760
that's essentially and this happened

975
00:38:55,910 --> 00:38:54,079
near george air force base just like the

976
00:38:58,150 --> 00:38:55,920
other two aircraft that we talked about

977
00:39:00,310 --> 00:38:58,160
that looked like lipish so they could

978
00:39:02,470 --> 00:39:00,320
have been testing something from george

979
00:39:04,870 --> 00:39:02,480
air force base or it could have escaped

980
00:39:08,230 --> 00:39:04,880
edwards flight test center as well now

981
00:39:09,990 --> 00:39:08,240
so here i've got your illustrations uh

982
00:39:10,870 --> 00:39:10,000
done by your artist

983
00:39:15,990 --> 00:39:10,880
and

984
00:39:17,750 --> 00:39:16,000
there's the 747 united heavy with uh

985
00:39:19,990 --> 00:39:17,760
this little guy cruising right

986
00:39:22,710 --> 00:39:20,000
underneath the plane uh

987
00:39:24,230 --> 00:39:22,720
it's there and then here is a view

988
00:39:27,349 --> 00:39:24,240
pilot's view

989
00:39:29,589 --> 00:39:27,359
from inside of the cockpit imagine

990
00:39:32,150 --> 00:39:29,599
imagine you're a pilot right

991
00:39:34,630 --> 00:39:32,160
imagine seeing that

992
00:39:37,430 --> 00:39:34,640
i think it's exciting to this day jimmy

993
00:39:39,270 --> 00:39:37,440
this sighting has not been explained and

994
00:39:41,829 --> 00:39:39,280
what i thought was interesting is

995
00:39:43,829 --> 00:39:41,839
united airlines they publish this

996
00:39:46,550 --> 00:39:43,839
sighting in their internal company

997
00:39:48,870 --> 00:39:46,560
newsletter so we know it's legit three

998
00:39:51,349 --> 00:39:48,880
separate sources no doubt

999
00:39:53,910 --> 00:39:51,359
yeah pretty incredible pretty incredible

1000
00:39:55,270 --> 00:39:53,920
at any time and i've done this a few

1001
00:39:57,990 --> 00:39:55,280
times in my life

1002
00:40:01,030 --> 00:39:58,000
where i've uh been able in a private

1003
00:40:03,109 --> 00:40:01,040
plane you know sat in the co-pilot seat

1004
00:40:05,270 --> 00:40:03,119
and and you know flew the plane and

1005
00:40:06,710 --> 00:40:05,280
goofed around and sat up there for a few

1006
00:40:07,670 --> 00:40:06,720
hours right

1007
00:40:10,470 --> 00:40:07,680
sure

1008
00:40:12,630 --> 00:40:10,480
praying to the good lord above

1009
00:40:14,310 --> 00:40:12,640
that i would have a sighting right i

1010
00:40:16,069 --> 00:40:14,320
mean if i was going to have i want to

1011
00:40:17,829 --> 00:40:16,079
have one right then and i'm always

1012
00:40:19,670 --> 00:40:17,839
quizzing the pilot have you ever seen

1013
00:40:22,470 --> 00:40:19,680
anything you know i've had a couple of

1014
00:40:24,950 --> 00:40:22,480
strange stories but i've been waiting

1015
00:40:28,150 --> 00:40:24,960
for something like that

1016
00:40:30,310 --> 00:40:28,160
so there you go okay uh next up that

1017
00:40:31,349 --> 00:40:30,320
that's that is one of the most

1018
00:40:34,630 --> 00:40:31,359
incredible

1019
00:40:38,630 --> 00:40:34,640
uh documented uh sightings like ever

1020
00:40:39,670 --> 00:40:38,640
and uh okay so now the xb70 okay xb70

1021
00:40:43,109 --> 00:40:39,680
okay

1022
00:40:45,990 --> 00:40:43,119
uh the date on this is june 8th 1966.

1023
00:40:48,870 --> 00:40:46,000
we've got a five ship formation

1024
00:40:52,790 --> 00:40:48,880
the xb70 was in the lead we also had an

1025
00:40:55,190 --> 00:40:52,800
f4 phantom an f5 a t-38 and an f-104 so

1026
00:40:56,950 --> 00:40:55,200
it's a it's a five-ship formation they

1027
00:41:00,790 --> 00:40:56,960
were on a photo flight

1028
00:41:03,829 --> 00:41:00,800
the f-104 was off the right wing tip of

1029
00:41:07,829 --> 00:41:03,839
the xb70 and for some reason jimmy we

1030
00:41:10,870 --> 00:41:07,839
don't know exactly why the f-104

1031
00:41:14,630 --> 00:41:10,880
drifted to the left and it clipped the

1032
00:41:16,950 --> 00:41:14,640
right wing tip of the xb70 immediately

1033
00:41:18,630 --> 00:41:16,960
after that this thing flipped up

1034
00:41:22,390 --> 00:41:18,640
inverted

1035
00:41:24,950 --> 00:41:22,400
struck the back of the xb70 shearing off

1036
00:41:28,230 --> 00:41:24,960
both vertical stabilizers pilot joe

1037
00:41:31,510 --> 00:41:28,240
walker was killed basically instantly

1038
00:41:34,870 --> 00:41:31,520
and then the xb70 went into an

1039
00:41:37,910 --> 00:41:34,880
uncontrolled spin and crashed

1040
00:41:40,309 --> 00:41:37,920
the co-pilot carl cross was killed al

1041
00:41:43,910 --> 00:41:40,319
white he injured his arm

1042
00:41:45,829 --> 00:41:43,920
when the clamshell crew egress system

1043
00:41:47,750 --> 00:41:45,839
crushed his arm

1044
00:41:51,270 --> 00:41:47,760
but he survived and that's essentially

1045
00:41:54,630 --> 00:41:51,280
the xb70 crashing to me jimmy this

1046
00:41:56,309 --> 00:41:54,640
aircraft represents the most inspiring

1047
00:41:58,550 --> 00:41:56,319
bird out there i mean it's one-on-one

1048
00:42:01,190 --> 00:41:58,560
with the sr-71 but this one might be

1049
00:42:02,950 --> 00:42:01,200
even more inspiring i know i know i know

1050
00:42:03,910 --> 00:42:02,960
it's absolutely incredible you see it in

1051
00:42:05,670 --> 00:42:03,920
person

1052
00:42:08,309 --> 00:42:05,680
yeah and you just get a lump in your

1053
00:42:10,230 --> 00:42:08,319
throat i mean it it just it is the most

1054
00:42:13,829 --> 00:42:10,240
incredible looking plane

1055
00:42:15,750 --> 00:42:13,839
ever and then of course the f-104 which

1056
00:42:17,109 --> 00:42:15,760
is you know i think the sexiest plane

1057
00:42:18,950 --> 00:42:17,119
ever designed

1058
00:42:22,069 --> 00:42:18,960
uh never flown but it was also

1059
00:42:23,829 --> 00:42:22,079
notoriously unstable

1060
00:42:25,349 --> 00:42:23,839
well the the f-104 was called the

1061
00:42:26,550 --> 00:42:25,359
missile with the men in it and it was

1062
00:42:28,230 --> 00:42:26,560
also called the widowmaker the

1063
00:42:30,790 --> 00:42:28,240
widowmaker approached the landing is

1064
00:42:33,589 --> 00:42:30,800
very high i mean it it's got such a

1065
00:42:35,510 --> 00:42:33,599
short wingspan that the landing speed is

1066
00:42:37,829 --> 00:42:35,520
very high so you got to be a good pilot

1067
00:42:39,270 --> 00:42:37,839
you have to have power all the way down

1068
00:42:41,990 --> 00:42:39,280
to the runway you don't just throttle

1069
00:42:44,230 --> 00:42:42,000
back and then flare this thing in

1070
00:42:45,109 --> 00:42:44,240
what is i remember the first time that i

1071
00:42:46,069 --> 00:42:45,119
saw

1072
00:42:51,270 --> 00:42:46,079
uh

1073
00:42:51,990 --> 00:42:51,280
and i looked at it and went those wings

1074
00:43:06,550 --> 00:42:52,000
i

1075
00:43:08,230 --> 00:43:06,560
20 feet 20 feet 20

1076
00:43:10,550 --> 00:43:08,240
20 feet

1077
00:43:13,109 --> 00:43:10,560
people that's with the fuselage in the

1078
00:43:15,670 --> 00:43:13,119
middle so that that's telling me that

1079
00:43:17,430 --> 00:43:15,680
each wing was probably

1080
00:43:19,589 --> 00:43:17,440
seven feet

1081
00:43:21,990 --> 00:43:19,599
the length of a body

1082
00:43:24,230 --> 00:43:22,000
yeah you could lay down on the ground

1083
00:43:27,510 --> 00:43:24,240
and there's the that's the size of the

1084
00:43:29,910 --> 00:43:27,520
wing maybe eight feet

1085
00:43:32,069 --> 00:43:29,920
that's incredible that's absolutely yeah

1086
00:43:33,829 --> 00:43:32,079
so if it's eight feet right eight and

1087
00:43:35,910 --> 00:43:33,839
eight sixteen that would leave you four

1088
00:43:37,190 --> 00:43:35,920
feet of fuselage in the middle that's

1089
00:43:40,470 --> 00:43:37,200
how tiny

1090
00:43:43,109 --> 00:43:40,480
the f-104 was wingspan 20 feet

1091
00:43:45,510 --> 00:43:43,119
you can see kelly johnson's handiwork in

1092
00:43:49,109 --> 00:43:45,520
this aircraft everything that kelly

1093
00:43:51,670 --> 00:43:49,119
johnson did was aesthetically pleasing

1094
00:43:53,910 --> 00:43:51,680
he really didn't design anything that

1095
00:43:56,470 --> 00:43:53,920
wasn't pretty you can say they all had

1096
00:43:58,950 --> 00:43:56,480
this certain kelly johnson look just

1097
00:44:01,430 --> 00:43:58,960
incredible there there has never been

1098
00:44:03,910 --> 00:44:01,440
another engineer like kelly johnson

1099
00:44:06,790 --> 00:44:03,920
bert rattan is very comparable he may

1100
00:44:08,470 --> 00:44:06,800
actually be better because he's designed

1101
00:44:11,109 --> 00:44:08,480
kind of a more

1102
00:44:12,950 --> 00:44:11,119
rounded grouping of aircraft

1103
00:44:16,069 --> 00:44:12,960
uh high-speed aircraft low-speed

1104
00:44:17,750 --> 00:44:16,079
aircraft some stealth aircraft so maybe

1105
00:44:19,270 --> 00:44:17,760
bert's better but they're they're very

1106
00:44:21,430 --> 00:44:19,280
close to each other

1107
00:44:24,069 --> 00:44:21,440
now uh when we come back after the break

1108
00:44:28,309 --> 00:44:24,079
let's go ahead and set this up

1109
00:44:32,230 --> 00:44:28,319
we are going to discuss the aztec

1110
00:44:34,950 --> 00:44:32,240
new mexico ufo which was uh after

1111
00:44:37,030 --> 00:44:34,960
roswell right tell us about aztec set it

1112
00:44:40,950 --> 00:44:37,040
up okay you want to roll with that okay

1113
00:44:43,190 --> 00:44:40,960
so the date on this is march 25th 1948

1114
00:44:45,910 --> 00:44:43,200
after the roswell incident

1115
00:44:48,390 --> 00:44:45,920
primary sources of information are

1116
00:44:51,829 --> 00:44:48,400
william steinman who was the original

1117
00:44:53,750 --> 00:44:51,839
researcher along

1118
00:44:56,550 --> 00:44:53,760
with wendell stevens so they were kind

1119
00:44:58,470 --> 00:44:56,560
of the the primary researchers now uh

1120
00:45:01,349 --> 00:44:58,480
they wrote a book called ufo crash at

1121
00:45:03,030 --> 00:45:01,359
aztec which is 500 to 600 pages long

1122
00:45:05,750 --> 00:45:03,040
it's a very

1123
00:45:07,349 --> 00:45:05,760
kind of a dry wordy read i don't even

1124
00:45:09,190 --> 00:45:07,359
think a lot of people read that oh i

1125
00:45:11,990 --> 00:45:09,200
read that book i still have that book

1126
00:45:13,109 --> 00:45:12,000
yep it's a very thick book it's very

1127
00:45:16,069 --> 00:45:13,119
wordy and

1128
00:45:17,670 --> 00:45:16,079
you know it's not a concise book

1129
00:45:18,790 --> 00:45:17,680
but the other researchers that have to

1130
00:45:19,589 --> 00:45:18,800
get credit

1131
00:45:22,150 --> 00:45:19,599
are

1132
00:45:24,550 --> 00:45:22,160
scott and suzanne ramsey they've done

1133
00:45:26,790 --> 00:45:24,560
everything that william steinman did and

1134
00:45:29,589 --> 00:45:26,800
took it to the next level and made it

1135
00:45:32,150 --> 00:45:29,599
modern and they've got 25 years of

1136
00:45:35,030 --> 00:45:32,160
research over 50 000 documents

1137
00:45:37,829 --> 00:45:35,040
pertaining to the aztec new mexico ufo

1138
00:45:40,069 --> 00:45:37,839
crash retrieval so in their minds it's

1139
00:45:42,309 --> 00:45:40,079
100 legit they've talked to the

1140
00:45:44,390 --> 00:45:42,319
surviving eyewitnesses they interviewed

1141
00:45:47,670 --> 00:45:44,400
them they went to

1142
00:45:49,510 --> 00:45:47,680
uh research historical archives and

1143
00:45:51,670 --> 00:45:49,520
pulled up the data all the original

1144
00:45:53,349 --> 00:45:51,680
documentation bottom line jimmy here's

1145
00:45:56,390 --> 00:45:53,359
what we're dealing with

1146
00:45:57,750 --> 00:45:56,400
we've got a 99.9 foot diameter disc

1147
00:46:01,190 --> 00:45:57,760
shaped craft

1148
00:46:03,750 --> 00:46:01,200
that crash landed 12.5 miles northeast

1149
00:46:06,150 --> 00:46:03,760
of aztec new mexico i mean literally

1150
00:46:08,390 --> 00:46:06,160
just a fraction

1151
00:46:10,790 --> 00:46:08,400
shorter than 100 feet in diameter the

1152
00:46:12,950 --> 00:46:10,800
craft had an upper dome and a lower dome

1153
00:46:15,349 --> 00:46:12,960
the lower dome was smaller in diameter

1154
00:46:17,670 --> 00:46:15,359
than the upper dome around the outside

1155
00:46:20,150 --> 00:46:17,680
circumference of the upper dome there

1156
00:46:22,390 --> 00:46:20,160
were six 16 inch diameter

1157
00:46:24,550 --> 00:46:22,400
round shaped port holes that had a

1158
00:46:26,230 --> 00:46:24,560
mirrored glass finish just like michael

1159
00:46:28,470 --> 00:46:26,240
jackson's glasses

1160
00:46:29,990 --> 00:46:28,480
now before we get before we get into

1161
00:46:32,550 --> 00:46:30,000
that because

1162
00:46:34,790 --> 00:46:32,560
that's not what's important here about

1163
00:46:37,109 --> 00:46:34,800
uh we're gonna there's a reason for this

1164
00:46:38,950 --> 00:46:37,119
everybody so we're gonna get to that in

1165
00:46:41,670 --> 00:46:38,960
a second and i've gotta head to break in

1166
00:46:45,829 --> 00:46:41,680
about 60 seconds so let me hold up to

1167
00:46:47,910 --> 00:46:45,839
the uh camera there it is 99 feet around

1168
00:46:49,910 --> 00:46:47,920
these are the portals here this is the

1169
00:46:51,589 --> 00:46:49,920
dome that he's talking about on the top

1170
00:46:53,190 --> 00:46:51,599
when we come back after the break we're

1171
00:46:54,470 --> 00:46:53,200
going to be talking about you can see

1172
00:46:56,470 --> 00:46:54,480
some men

1173
00:46:58,710 --> 00:46:56,480
which are oil workers we'll discuss that

1174
00:47:01,270 --> 00:46:58,720
in a second but i go up to one of the

1175
00:47:02,710 --> 00:47:01,280
portals and and it's what they discover

1176
00:47:06,630 --> 00:47:02,720
there and then what happened to the

1177
00:47:09,430 --> 00:47:06,640
craft now but the other point about this

1178
00:47:11,030 --> 00:47:09,440
some call it a crash we've definitely

1179
00:47:13,750 --> 00:47:11,040
have retrieval

1180
00:47:16,390 --> 00:47:13,760
but you are saying that this may not

1181
00:47:19,670 --> 00:47:16,400
have been as a crash as much as it was a

1182
00:47:21,430 --> 00:47:19,680
landing yeah well in the kingman ufo

1183
00:47:23,750 --> 00:47:21,440
quote-unquote crash retrieval according

1184
00:47:25,030 --> 00:47:23,760
to harry drew it was a soft landing but

1185
00:47:26,870 --> 00:47:25,040
in this one

1186
00:47:29,670 --> 00:47:26,880
we could somewhat

1187
00:47:32,309 --> 00:47:29,680
call it a crash it's sort of a

1188
00:47:34,950 --> 00:47:32,319
slight uh soft lining as well but it did

1189
00:47:36,550 --> 00:47:34,960
embed itself slightly in the soil and we

1190
00:47:38,390 --> 00:47:36,560
can talk about what happened on one of

1191
00:47:40,309 --> 00:47:38,400
the windows when we got back yeah yeah

1192
00:47:43,750 --> 00:47:40,319
we'll do that when we come back yeah

1193
00:47:47,270 --> 00:47:43,760
this is uh absolutely incredible the

1194
00:47:50,150 --> 00:47:47,280
aztec uh uh new mexico case because of

1195
00:47:52,870 --> 00:47:50,160
scott and susan ramsey and their recent

1196
00:47:55,510 --> 00:47:52,880
research and book um

1197
00:47:57,910 --> 00:47:55,520
is this is turning out to be one of the

1198
00:48:02,230 --> 00:47:57,920
most incredible cases

1199
00:48:04,069 --> 00:48:02,240
uh in in ufo history uh right here and

1200
00:48:06,790 --> 00:48:04,079
and they have done some excellent

1201
00:48:09,190 --> 00:48:06,800
excellent work uh to continue to

1202
00:48:11,910 --> 00:48:09,200
investigate this and and you're right

1203
00:48:14,150 --> 00:48:11,920
about uh wendell stevens and all of his

1204
00:48:16,309 --> 00:48:14,160
work in the past i miss him so much

1205
00:48:18,230 --> 00:48:16,319
let's take a break right here this is

1206
00:48:21,430 --> 00:48:18,240
fade to black i'm your host jimmy church

1207
00:48:23,109 --> 00:48:21,440
our guest tonight michael schrad

1208
00:48:26,069 --> 00:48:23,119
discussing all of these cases and we'll

1209
00:48:27,109 --> 00:48:26,079
continue with the aztec new mexico ufo

1210
00:48:29,270 --> 00:48:27,119
crash

1211
00:48:37,030 --> 00:48:29,280
soft landing and retrieval when we come

1212
00:48:42,710 --> 00:48:39,589
you have just listened to a full hour

1213
00:48:44,150 --> 00:48:42,720
free preview of fade to black to get the

1214
00:48:47,270 --> 00:48:44,160
full show

1215
00:48:50,309 --> 00:48:47,280
all archives just go to our podcast

1216
00:48:52,630 --> 00:48:50,319
section at jimmychurchradio.com

1217
00:48:55,109 --> 00:48:52,640
you can also sign up to be a fader not

1218
00:48:57,990 --> 00:48:55,119
in our membership area where we have

1219
00:48:59,309 --> 00:48:58,000
downloadable mp3s

1220
00:49:00,870 --> 00:48:59,319
go to

1221
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:00,880
jimmychurchradio.com